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#1 28 Aug, 2014 11:03 am

Longer descriptions

Sometimes I want to write more. A lot more. That's really all there is to it. We need longer descriptions, and more importantly, longer single comments.

This is a site that's devoted to rating and commenting on drawings, and yet you can only write a tidy bit per comment. This is a relatively simple matter that needs addressing.

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#2 28 Aug, 2014 1:34 pm

Re: Longer descriptions

I agree, but a lot of comments on here...are really short...and no one really gives a critique or tip unless someone asks and even when they do...they still don't really give a thorough one and/or honest.

I'm one of those comment-ers...but it's because I really don't know what else to say.
When it's a really good drawing it's hard to give feedback when you aren't sure.(for me that is)


I just point out the things I like or give a simple 'love it' or 'this is awesome!' or the encouraging 'keep drawing'

I feel it's the same w/ descriptions....a lot of descriptions are short and a lot of drawings don't have any at all...

soo yeah that's all


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"Art is never finished, only abandoned." - Leonardo da Vinci

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#3 28 Aug, 2014 6:52 pm

Re: Longer descriptions

"Love it" or "This is awesome" is totally unhelpful, though.

Anyone can say it and not mean it. A really meaningful comment is something that takes time and thought to write. Not only do they convey that someone cared enough to spend longer than 3 seconds to think of what to say, it points out either what you did right or what you did wrong.

If you don't know how to critique or compliment artwork, it's because you don't understand the basics. You're still learning artwork based on 2D visualization and memorization, and not based on a structured understanding of how things work.

Last edited by Forte (28 Aug, 2014 6:53 pm)

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#4 28 Aug, 2014 8:23 pm

Re: Longer descriptions

This could be a nice update smile.

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#5 29 Aug, 2014 2:59 am

Re: Longer descriptions

Forte wrote:

"Love it" or "This is awesome" is totally unhelpful, though.

Anyone can say it and not mean it. A really meaningful comment is something that takes time and thought to write. Not only do they convey that someone cared enough to spend longer than 3 seconds to think of what to say, it points out either what you did right or what you did wrong.

If you don't know how to critique or compliment artwork, it's because you don't understand the basics. You're still learning artwork based on 2D visualization and memorization, and not based on a structured understanding of how things work.

He, well I always do mean it. And if I did give a critique, I'm not sure how the person would feel.
I don't mind tips or critiques but I rarely get one. hough, I did just get one hours ago! (woot woot)
I usually do take like more than 3 seconds to write a comment but if I'm in a hurry, I'll write a quick one.


BUT I'll try to write more meaningful comments, tips and/or critiques.


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| (• ◡•)| (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
"Art is never finished, only abandoned." - Leonardo da Vinci

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#6 29 Aug, 2014 7:24 am

Re: Longer descriptions

When I started, I tried giving honest comments,   It got me blocked from commenting on accounts, hate rated and messages sent to me such as ths...


its interesting you try to tell me how to do my job which is illustration and design. i think its funny you give a professional drawing a low rating because your inadequate. dont bite the barn door lady, if you know what i mean.


If you can't beat 'em, send 'em to their room

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#7 30 Aug, 2014 12:59 am

Re: Longer descriptions

agyla wrote:

When I started, I tried giving honest comments,   It got me blocked from commenting on accounts, hate rated and messages sent to me such as ths...


its interesting you try to tell me how to do my job which is illustration and design. i think its funny you give a professional drawing a low rating because your inadequate. dont bite the barn door lady, if you know what i mean.

This is a problem of maturity and being self-conscious, or complacent or both.

People seem to think design > technical ability. As in, there's no need to learn proper human anatomy because I draw stylized manga, only to complain to all the internet that I suck at drawing while secretly intent on receiving hollow encouragement from anonymous people.

Seeking value in something that inherently provides none. There should be a word for that.
/rant

Last edited by Forte (30 Aug, 2014 1:01 am)

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#8 30 Aug, 2014 10:32 am

Re: Longer descriptions

Forte wrote:

agyla wrote:

When I started, I tried giving honest comments,   It got me blocked from commenting on accounts, hate rated and messages sent to me such as ths...


its interesting you try to tell me how to do my job which is illustration and design. i think its funny you give a professional drawing a low rating because your inadequate. dont bite the barn door lady, if you know what i mean.

This is a problem of maturity and being self-conscious, or complacent or both.

People seem to think design > technical ability. As in, there's no need to learn proper human anatomy because I draw stylized manga, only to complain to all the internet that I suck at drawing while secretly intent on receiving hollow encouragement from anonymous people.

Seeking value in something that inherently provides none. There should be a word for that.
/rant

i had never really understood what rating meant but seeing this comment i finally get it smile) i don t want to waste my time in writing again that people are different and there are not 2 people with the same expectations , who appreciate the same kind of drawing ..and who are the same maturity level ..lol smile)) if maturity means to ignore the whole idea behind a drawing ( like design , colors, meaning)  and be stuck on appreciating only the skills and realism stuff  i ll pass it . i ll pass the whole being mean and acting all superior in my deep/smart/logical /comments just to put down some kids who are enjoying the act of drawing . ..like you know..feeling good ..that kind of shallow activities.  which reminds me of hallow encouragement from anonymus people...man if i d be mature i d think that i m on internet..like you know..where anonymous people are interracting ( in a hallow way , cause they don t know each other )  .roll
I support the idea of longer description , good thread

Last edited by vis_in_vis (30 Aug, 2014 10:33 am)

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#9 30 Aug, 2014 8:20 pm

Re: Longer descriptions

vis_in_vis wrote:

i had never really understood what rating meant but seeing this comment i finally get it smile)

Sounds facetious.





i don t want to waste my time in writing again that people are different and there are not 2 people with the same expectations , who appreciate the same kind of drawing

Critiques are unhindered by personal preference for the most part.




if maturity means to ignore the whole idea behind a drawing ( like design , colors, meaning)  and be stuck on appreciating only the skills and realism stuff  i ll pass it .

First, maturity is simply the act of absorbing new information without being offended simply for the sake of your ego. Your definition of maturity here is very localized and only applies in one specific, self-defined scenario for the sake of argument. Second, technical ability is a lot easier to critique because it's either good or bad. Artistic creativity is subjective. You can critique it, but you'd be biased.


i ll pass the whole being mean and acting all superior in my deep/smart/logical /comments just to put down some kids who are enjoying the act of drawing

Because it's better to share non-existent actual feelings on something than ones with substance that people are too immature to absorb.




. ..like you know..feeling good ..that kind of shallow activities.

Feeling good about shallow praise is shallow. How could it not be?


which reminds me of hallow encouragement from anonymus people...man if i d be mature i d think that i m on internet..like you know..where anonymous people are interracting ( in a hallow way , cause they don t know each other )

This sentence is kind of incoherent. Also I'm not sure if you're trying to say shallow or hollow.


I support the idea of longer description , good thread

Thank you.

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#10 31 Aug, 2014 5:02 am

Re: Longer descriptions

hi , well thanks for telling me how my comment sound , i was pretty much aware when i wrote it that the only answer i ll got instead by an logical argument will be " how you sound is.." great.roll
i forgot to leave the second part of the comment which was about the " only to complain to all the internet that I suck at drawing while secretly intent on receiving hollow encouragement from anonymous people."
1 . people may be aware about their skills , they can be honest and write in the description " man this suck " it s messy is bad etc just cause they SEE that . it s not some secret code for " come give me 2. "hollow" ( your word not mine ,but i get the idea) comments" .
And again if they are just waiting for encouragment i don t see any problem , they are plenty of people who will give them . ( since when being nice is bad ?)
""Love it" or "This is awesome" is totally unhelpful, though."  - who said this is a place to give help ? if you want place you ask , want tips you ask .( or just go to some art class. school. watch a video, go on deviant where is more about that  , etc)  This is offensive for those who are expressing what they think about a drawing , and they are actually nice people who are making this place still "live" cause i see it s a big thing here about what the place was and it s not anymore )
They are  people who will send messages to help or give tips is no need to go parade your incredible knowledge about drawing to some kid who just doodle for fun ( for ex)

I support the idea of longer description , good thread
Thank you.
you are welcome

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#11 31 Aug, 2014 10:24 am

Re: Longer descriptions

A kind-spirited critique worded in a brutally honest manner is just a form of praise on hold.

Honesty can come off condescending and arrogant, but it's just one's true thoughts. Personally, I feel that's infinitely more helpful than simply saying "Great draw, liked."

Which is also kind-spirited, but I feel it's just a bit hollow. It's innocuous, sure, and I wouldn't complain if we got just a bit more critiques, but we get almost none, even if they are explicitly requested. Critiques help us improve our skills, and if you have the right mindset for it, it can serve as a sort of tough-love encouragement. I value it greatly.

I don't understand how someone could not want such guidance, however I know people vary. I wish I could get my art criticized on this site, I really do. But even the artists who are better than me often have no critiques to offer.

I don't mind an encouraging comment of praise. I really enjoy them, when they're thought-out and informative. I want to know what I did right, not just that I did everything right, because I know I never will.

I hope this comment has a bit less of my own ego, and makes a bit more sense of my feelings on the matter.

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#12 01 Sep, 2014 3:50 pm

Re: Longer descriptions

I know I am going to be sorry I did this. But here  I go... I am one of those people who write.. amazing draw or awesome draw or cool draw or fabulous draw.. once in awhile I will leave a longer comment. But mostly simple easy comments. I went back and looked at forte's last draw. Chelsea ... I loved this draw.. I even put it on my Favorites. so by doing that I think it tells you that I really enjoyed it. Here On this thread you say that you want more then awesome draw. You feel that more is better. Ok./ I loved the realism of the portrait the smile the girl makes it very easy to like..... automatically the smile just draws you in.. but then you added the noise technique to it which gave the drawing a painting type style.... this is what made it unique. 

Now with that said. I assumed you already knew all those things which were the appeal of doing the drawing in the first place.This is why then I say..awesome draw. because with that comment I am agreeing with you that this drawing was worth drawing. That this drawing made me feel great... that this drawing was one that I found time to look at because it caught my eye and I wanted to see it up closer. I would not go to look at the Mona Lisa and say .. I do not like the shape of her head. I think her mouth is to small for her body. and whats with that back ground... Nope I would look at this drawing of the Mona Lisa and be in awe of the  painting surviving all these years. I would look at that small mouth and think.. it was the smile that he was paying attention to that he was going for... I would look at the background and think to myself...this is the type of Florentine Italian Renaissance that Leonardo drew as if the background and the portrait are two different paintings yet he was able to entwine them. Yet I know there would be millions of people who would disagree with my comments. They would find me repulsive to even try and critique Leonardo da Vinci


Not to mention I am terrible at portraits I have no patience when trying to draw them.  so who am I to say your drawing has anything wrong with it at all.. for that matter to say it is better then anyone else.  So forgive me for the brief drawing comments... In my case... it just means you did a great drawing and I took the time to look at it... comment on it (however short) and rate that I did indeed like it.. Most people look at drawing in here and do not even care enough to rate it or comment on them at all. If you ask me those hidden viewers are the ones that we should all have issue with. They all cant be guest just passing though. I take it that those people are the ones who looked at my work and did not like it , not even enough to say they like it by rating it.  now that is more depressing then small comments.   

I know that most of my drawing are just sh*&^ most of them were just fooling around hoping to make someone  laugh.... out of the 1000 I did I myself only kept less then 100, Because I hope someday to put them in a table book for my own pleasure.... For the other 900 and some drawing.. I just appreciate those who have taken the time to hang out in my gallery and look at them at all... so I personally think that even if you leave a one word comment... that is cool....This is just my opinion...

Last edited by Anniebee (01 Sep, 2014 4:10 pm)


Bee happy Bee thankful

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#13 01 Sep, 2014 6:58 pm

Re: Longer descriptions

People who view a drawing aren't obligated to leave a like if they don't care about what they're seeing.

There are people who have no reason to be impressed with anything I can do, and for good reason.

To each their own. I strive for comments that have a message. I won't be grateful for 3 second comments. If you don't know what you like about something, then I won't mind if you decide not to comment.

I think a lot of people just don't know how to criticize things. Which is really just too bad. It's a shame.

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#14 16 Sep, 2014 10:34 pm

Re: Longer descriptions

I totally agree with the "longer description" concept. I always have so much to write, whether it's about what I have drawn (because on this site I primarily draw fan art or manga/idols) or the style I have drawn (like what tools I used, how many layers, etc.) So I just end up having to write about something else like "oh this person is my favourite ____" and it's kind of getting annoying.

And about the "meaningless comments", I can't say I don't give them out.
If I did say I ALWAYS wrote critiques or my genuine interests in one's artwork I'd be a liar. But on occasion, I will give them out (very rare occasion).

Sometimes I find artwork, like yours, which I just adore everything about. I'm honestly an amateur artist compared to you, so to me, your art is perfection. Though you could disagree, I love your art and everything about it. I look to art like yours in awe rather than a scholar stand point. Your art just has so much depth and emotion in it and I regret not telling you as much in the past.

For me, personally, I think it's the small character count on the comment section that just turns off the entire idea for leaving a thought-out critique.
When I critique something I'd like to take time and maybe leave at least a paragraph of thoughts, improvements and what was done well.

I have tried in the past to give critiques but I just have been bit in the behind by it. All the critique was that their Japanese characters weren't legible, I couldn't read them and they looked incorrect. I tried telling them as nicely as possible so it didn't seem like I was attacking them, but they got really defensive and it's just lost its appeal since.
On the other hand, I did make a good friend through criticism. I told her the character's eyes were to close together and my technique on how to fix them. She took the opinion with open arms and with great interest. I personally try to take criticism as well as I can, and use their thoughts to improve my drawings.

I remember one specific time Jyuliey left criticism on my "Eternal" drawing and I've took to heart what she said and have used it in every drawn since.
This site does lack the heart of an actual drawing community.
It's all really fluffy and not many people (including myself) are doing much to change it.

This brought to light not only the problem with character count on drawings/comments but the problem of people being to nice/fluffy on comments and people being to stubborn to take criticism.

And it irks me when people fish for complements. Now I can't say that I'm an expert on human anatomy, or that my anatomy is correct all the time. But I sure as hell don't say I'm a terrible artist. To be honest, I'm a pretty good artist to say the least and just because I think something is off about the drawing doesn't mean that I want you to tell me everything is going to be okay and hold my hand.

Last edited by Torikago (16 Sep, 2014 10:41 pm)


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#15 17 Sep, 2014 12:26 am

Re: Longer descriptions

Tori, your comments are always kind-spirited, and you just come off as a really kind person. You also come off kind of... Naive.

I'm not sure how attached to art you are, I'm not sure what your goals are. For me, I work ever-harder to achieve some kind of outcome that I can be happy with like some kind of restless alchemist. I'm never happy with my work. It's not because I think I'm terrible, and that I have no ability to draw. It's because my own art doesn't do it for me. And when I look at artists that are really accomplished, I really do feel "terrible" is the most accurate way to describe my abilities. It's certainly not to fish for compliments, I can assure you I get enough of them, and half of them come from people who don't have any clue what they're commenting on.

While on one hand, I'm glad when other people truly admire something I've created, I have zero appreciation for people who seem to spend a short moment looking at my work only to leave an even shorter comment so they can get their good deed in for the day. When you leave a comment that's so cliche, hundreds of thousands of varieties of people could leave the exact same comment by coincidence, I truly feel that is a useless, pointless comment that's only purpose is to give the commenting artist a small chance to gain some exposure.

But either way, I do think the descriptions and comment lengths should be longer. Hoping that becomes a thing.

EDIT:
I wasn't sure what kind of impression this comment would give, so I just wanted to clarify that I appreciate your comments just the way they are. And I truly encourage you to practice your basics. I think you'll notice how average my abilities are quite soon after you change your approach to practicing art.

Last edited by Forte (17 Sep, 2014 12:30 am)

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#16 17 Sep, 2014 12:47 am

Re: Longer descriptions

Naïve? Reaally? Haha I've never been called that.
I honestly thought I came off as rude and stand-offish to be honest, I'm genuinely surprised . _ .
I am still quite young, so I guess it's natural for me to act that way (kind and naïve). I mean, I'm only in my 2nd year of HS heh.

I honestly have no goals for my art other than to improve little by little. I mean, there's this drawing that I did in ~2008 and I re draw it every year just to see the improvements. And just seeing the improvements within a year astonishes me.

I totally understand the "terrible" feeling. I get it too. When I look at your art, Sakura997, Jyuliey, etc. They're all extremely incredible to me, like an unreachable level.
Trust me, there is nothing that makes me more anxious than comparing my art to others.
For me drawing is nothing more than a hobby I'm a little more than talented at.
I'm sorry if my comments seem a little… plain, short, and/or useless. This is kind of an intervention for myself almost. I feel like I'll try to put a little more time and effort into the comments I give. At least pointing out specifics if anything.

AHH I'm sorry if it sounding like I was accusing you of fishing, I meant in general. I was skimming over the previous statements and was kind of making a summary of my thoughts on the whole thread. I don't think you are fishing at all, I believe you deserve every comment you get.

I hate when people just say things like "cool draw, like". I honestly would rather them not even comment then. At least put more than 5 words for pete's sake >:0

Ah if I seem like I'm just commenting for exposure I'm truly sorry. My intentions must've been fogged because when I comment on your art I truly mean I love every detail. Even the "flaws" are something I'm jealous of. That you can have "flaws" and the drawing as a whole still seems extremely gorgeous and meaningful. Rather than looking at details, I look at the full picture and try to understand the meaning than the technique (does that make any sense? My mind's jumbled, I'm just taking a break from drawing to let my mind rest for a moment).

But yes, I hope something does change. But I feel like sometimes people don't even read the description. For instance, I'll have a description like "This is my male character Meilin Hou. He likes to wear lolita dresses because it gives him…." (however I would end that sentence), and I'd still get comments like "omgg she's so pretty I love her dress 5/5h".
It's not like I hid the fact that the character was a male, it's quite plainly out there but -- ugh.
I at least hope the comments get lengthened.

//sorry for my jumbled thoughts . _ .


I ♥ JHope

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#17 17 Sep, 2014 12:55 am

Re: Longer descriptions

Okay, I just asked my best friend (who you strangely remind me of, probably the intelligent way you type and how blunt and realistic you are) and she said I was socially naïve because I just assume everyone is nice (which has gotten me into some pretty nasty situations).

//sorry this is off topic I just needed to spout this nonsense . _ .


I ♥ JHope

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#18 17 Sep, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Longer descriptions

Oh, sorry! I didn't mean I was talking about you.

I just feel like in general, a lot of the people who comment only once ever on any of my drawings and forget about me from then on, the people who comment just to leave a comment, the people with false intrigue.

This is the feeling I get from anonymous comments. On the other hand, you've written a lot, and I feel I could connect with your thoughts and impressions a lot better because of it.

I must seem like an incredibly strict person.

EDIT:
On the topic of your OC, I thought it was a girl too, a-ha~
I was like "Oh, wow. She's adorable." And then I read the description and I became a little bit confused.
I didn't know that gender-bender art was really a thing, but I'm actually, (somewhat oddly, I suppose...) a big fan of it as a manga category. I've probably just about every gender-bender manga under the sun.

Last edited by Forte (17 Sep, 2014 3:21 am)

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#19 19 Sep, 2014 12:51 am

Re: Longer descriptions

Ah I saw the edit after I posted!
Oh yes, I understand that. They're just passing through like "I clicked on it, might as well leave some meaningless comment as well" or something.

Ah, I really am your fan. I wish I had your style. Because though you have very detailed art, you're not afraid to "colour out of the lines", so to speak. I, on the other hand, am. But everybody's style is different. To each his own right?

NO you don't at all actually! You have your right to want things from others and have feelings about their actions. I completely understand your point of view.
You just seem like a very intellectual person with a passion.

Ohh yea… No that's okay aha even in the story people think he's a girl so I guess it's to be expected. But at least you know now right? haha.
I think gender-bending as a genre is really-- comforting? In a way? For instance, it crosses "normal boundaries" set by other genres, not even just in manga. It gives the author, and even the reader-- more freedom. (does that make any sense? I feel like my thoughts are really jumbled sounding…)

Last edited by Torikago (19 Sep, 2014 12:51 am)


I ♥ JHope

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#20 19 Sep, 2014 8:19 am

Re: Longer descriptions

I haven't done lineart in ages. I just draw blobs of color and value and detail those, no lines to speak of.

Lineart is good for practicing structure. And I'm really terrible at it. Drawing from blobs of value is really messy, but easy to do if you have a good sense of form.
I'm flattered you want my style. If you like it so much, feel free to try to replicate my style. That's what I did, and after a while you'll branch off into your own preferences.

Maybe I should do a tutorial on here, demonstrating my approach to drawing things.


I do find comfort in gender bender manga. Dunno why, but ever since I read Pretty Face, I just kind of fell in love with the theme. I guess it's just because it's an extreme lifestyle. Something people normally don't actually experience, so reading about it becomes kind of fascinating.

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